Vinyl's Comeback

Records, records, records. Post your questions and answers regarding record collecting, my personal favorite topic.

Postby Wildcat Rudy » Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:59 pm

Matt The Cat wrote:See, if you can also see the screw up involving Dave Brubeck?


I know my Brubeck, but...I can't really tell if that LP is spinning at 33-1/3 or 45 at that angle. I know they just overdubbed the music ("Take Five") onto the broadcast, and I know that the first track on side 1 is "Blue Rondo a la Turk". The record label is correct--I know a Columbia 6-eye mono was valid in that era, and I'm sure the stereo was as well (which this copy was). I couldn't see enough of the jacket to see if it also said Stereo, and for that matter, I can't tell if it was an original 6-eye, or if maybe it was one of those audiophile reissues (Classic Records put this out, no?) with an authentic label. And yes, the Brubeck video clip was a different song--Desmond's alto fingerings don't match the music.

Nitpicky enough? :mrgreen:

The real crime was playing a Columbia 6-eye LP on one of those cheap Crossley turntables...that crappy stylus and plastic tonearm will grind those records to a pulp after a few plays. (Especially this one--a good, clean Brubeck or Miles LP, original 6-eye pressing, costs a small mint these days!) Sheesh--if you're going to invest in vinyl, at least spend some money on a GOOD turntable and cartridge! And good, used 'tables (especially from the 70s) can be had for under $100.

Matt--if you make it to Detroit or Ann Arbor, I'll take you on a tour of the record haunts here in the area. I miss doing it myself, actually.
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Postby Matt The Cat » Fri May 01, 2009 9:35 am

You got it, Rudy! It was that they showed the record playing the first song on side one, which as you said was "Blue Rondo a la Turk", but with the music of "Take Five" playing ("Take Five" was the last song on side one, BTW).

Yeah, it's a shame that they picked that woman. She obviously has no idea of how great records sound, if she's playing them on a little Crosley reproduction. Her comments didn't make any sense and she stores her records in a stack on the floor. What a shame!

Thanks for playing!

Rudy Wins!

-MTC
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Postby Sad Cat » Fri May 01, 2009 11:29 am

Rudy, I award you the Golden Stylus. Cool! My TT is just a step up from the Crosley, ION USB. MTC, you are right, but most people will never spot the things plattah lovahs like you do. I had to laugh at the guy who found the LP cover work to be visually pleasing. Duh! The story was great. It needs to be shown on the National news. Leave it to TV to showcase a lady who spoke fairly well and was kinda cute. Oh wait, it is TV. Matt, Matt, Matt ... you really need to take your knowledge and skill and work with PBS to do a show about plattahs. I also think you could assemble a syndicated program playing only plattahs. I suspect you might get sponsors like the vinyl makers, the TT guys, and the stylus cats. I am sorry for not supporting your pay as you go program idea. I don't believe in it, and more importantly, could not afford it. Getting back to the TV show, my guess would be they dubbed the audio in later from a CD. You know they did. I don't have any Brubeck, but the record on the Crosley is an older label from Columbia. The chicky-babe talks the talk, but she don't even keep her plattahs clean. Dude!
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Postby Wildcat Rudy » Fri May 01, 2009 11:56 am

Matt The Cat wrote:You got it, Rudy! It was that they showed the record playing the first song on side one, which as you said was "Blue Rondo a la Turk", but with the music of "Take Five" playing ("Take Five" was the last song on side one, BTW).


I figured it had to be side 1 or side 2 (I didn't catch a good enough glance at the label). Side 2 started with "Three To Get Ready", IIRC. Only us hyper-critical vinyl types would notice stuff like that. ;)

I will say that if that chick relates to vinyl, that's fine...but she's missing out on SO much. I can't imagine her buying any of that audiophile vinyl new and playing it on that contraption though...that cheap stylus would ruin those after a few plays.
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Postby Sad Cat » Sat May 02, 2009 7:37 pm

Like I said before, my TT is just barely better than the Crosley. I probably use the same cartridge. My stylus shell is that same deep red. When it comes time to replace the stylus, I will be able to get two for twenty bucks. I never know when to replace the stylus unless I damage it. Is it really bad for my old records to use a cheap turntable? I can't afford to get something better. This one came from the Vinyl Santa. Is there something I should do without having to get another TT?
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Postby Matt The Cat » Sun May 03, 2009 11:02 am

Well, if you can replace the whole cartridge with something better, that would help tremendously. Do those tables have removable cartridges or just styli? Who makes the cartridge?
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Postby Sad Cat » Sun May 03, 2009 1:33 pm

Thanks Matt. I can only replace the stylus. According to Radio Shack, where it came from, it uses the Sanyo ST-09D stylus. Needle Doctor calls the same the Fisher ST09D. Needle Doctor also has a Fisher ST09D "78" stylus. Radio Shack lists tracking from 1 to 3 grams. Is it bad for my records, or are we mostly talking sound quality? I don't have a stereo, my TT hooks up to my iMac and that is how I listen. For a computer, the sound is great. After all, its a Mac. All the Crosleys at Needle Doctor (less the Stack-O-Matic) use the Fisher ST05D stylus and there is an ST05D "78" for them too. So maybe the Crosley isn't so bad after all. They can play 78s and have a needle just for it.
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Postby Matt The Cat » Sun May 03, 2009 4:40 pm

Well, a tracking force of between 1 to 3 grams is pretty much normal, but the question is, what do you have it set at? 1.25 to 1.75g would be a perfectly fine tracking weight and would not ruin records. If you are tracking somewhere in that range, then I'd say you're ok. Basically Rudy and I are talking about sound quality. A cheap stylus is just that, a cheap stylus. Like everything else, you really do get what you pay for. Right now, I use an Ortofon OM-10. It's certainly not top of the line, but it's a solid mid-line performer. Whenever I get another job, I'll be upgrading to one of Ortofon's newer cartridges, the 2M Blue or Bronze.

Re: 78s. You can play 78s with a microgroove (33s & 45s) stylus, but I wouldn't recommend it. You will miss out on the glory that is the 78 rpm record. Since 78s have much wider grooves, you need a wider stylus to fit in those grooves. It's nice that both of the brands you mentioned make a 78rpm stylus for their turntables. I'm glad to see you're on Needle Doctor as well. It's a good, reliable site and I've bought a lot of styli through them over the years.

But overall, if you're listening to records only on your Mac, then you really don't need to invest in a better styli. You're fine. Just enjoy and don't worry about it. As long as it makes you happy. That's what I tell everyone.

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Postby Wildcat Rudy » Sun May 03, 2009 9:12 pm

For 78s, you really should have the proper stylus. The common "microgroove" (33/45) stylus will actually ride on the bottom of the groove and play noisily. I have my old Shure M44 fit with the 78RPM stylus on a removable headshell, on the old direct-drive turntable I converted by adding the additional speed.

For the cheaper turntables, though, I would never play any irreplaceable or expensive vinyl on it. On those cartridges, you only have a spherical/conical stylus, which does not play higher frequencies well...and since it can't track those, it'll just rip through them. Not only that, some may not have a diamond stylus--it could be sapphire, like some in the old days, which wears a lot quicker.

Yeah, I put a lot of money into vinyl playback, including a cartridge that would probably cost several hundred bucks on eBay to replace (thanks the the hoarders/gougers). But with its Micro Ridge stylus, I had a couple of LPs I'd probably played more than 100 times (like Donald Fagen's "The Nightfly", which I played nightly for months ;) ), and still sounded like new. Other records I'd owned and played with my elliptical-stylus Grado GF3E+ clearly have some groove wear. Worse, I have some 12" singles I'd played on an even cheaper Shure that really took some abuse... *sigh*

Heck, if you enjoy getting some decent $5 vinyl and spinning it, go right ahead! Got some old records you want to hear? Go for it. I just advise getting a better 'table and cartridge if you plan on investing in anything collectible or expensive (like audiophile vinyl).
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Postby Fryin' Bryan » Mon May 04, 2009 6:23 am

I really hope people don't envision that lady in the video when they think of "record collectors".

The Crooked Beat was hoppin'.

I really need to upgrade my cartridge. Just the thought of damaging my records scares the hell out of me!

WR, which stylus do you use? Shure V15 I'm guessing.
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Postby Sad Cat » Mon May 04, 2009 12:43 pm

At least I'm not spinning my 45s on this: http://www.montanaphonograph.com/gallery/SeeHF100R.html
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Postby Matt The Cat » Mon May 04, 2009 7:33 pm

Oh, that's SOOOO NICE!

Wish I had one of those.
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Postby Wildcat Rudy » Tue May 05, 2009 2:26 pm

Fryin' Bryan wrote:I really need to upgrade my cartridge. Just the thought of damaging my records scares the hell out of me!


I know--I feel the same way. I'm afraid to play any "good" vinyl on my older cartridges. I even have a Dynavector DV10X3 (early 80s vintage), and it never was a good tracker, not to mention very dull sounding. (It was never a very "compliant" cartridge.) That surprised me, as it's a high-output moving coil cart. But I try to avoid playing anything good on it.

Fryin' Bryan wrote:WR, which stylus do you use? Shure V15 I'm guessing.


I have an original Shure V15 Type V with the MR (Micro Ridge) stylus. It's crazy-good. Thing is, it is also crazy-expensive. Since the replacement stylus is now out of production, you can't even buy them anywhere except from the hoarders/gougers on eBay.

The very fine line stylus tips track high frequencies the best, and reduce wear. The Shure's V15V stylus line used a beryllium tube cantilever that was extremely lightweight, but also very fragile. I can't tell you how many I had snapped over the years. I'm hearing that the Audio Technica carts, like the AT440MLa and AT150MLx can track as good as the Shure, although they are a bit on the bright side until they break in. (You can also tune them by changing the loading with parallel resistors, which I can do in my Hafler preamp right at the inputs.) There is also an OCX9 that is about the same as the 150MLx, but it's a low-output moving coil. The 440MLa is very affordable though: places like Needle Doctor and others were selling it for as low as $89 a year or two ago. I installed one on a friend's Sony turntable, and it sounded nice and clean right out of the box. I'll have to go the Audio Technica route when my Shure ever bites the dust....unless they put it back into production.
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Vinyl is Back

Postby Yum Yum » Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:53 pm

While looking at CDS in Barnes And Noble i came across a Vinyl section with some real good LPS but seeing them for an average price of 19.99 im sticking with CDS !! Yum Yum
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Re: Vinyl's Comeback

Postby BFSD » Sat Dec 19, 2009 2:39 pm

Hi,
I just bought some new vinyl . John Coltrane and Johnny Hartman form the early 60's that is just tremoundous. What great sound.
Also "Woody, Cisco, and Sonny" recorded from 1944. This is great Original Folk.
And "Christmas In The Heart" by the Bob. Bob is Bob. He just is not a Ballad singer.
The best is a CD EP "Mean Old Man" By Jerry Lee Lewis. It is a bit Country but great . The 4th cut is "You Can Have Her" with both Eric Clapton and James Burton.
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